Whadda you guys think? Me… I’m schtumped! The so-called “Gun Jesus” beardo - Ian Macollum - had his doubts. Another guntoober - Tim at the Military Arms Channel on OyTube - has had a few Sigs shit the bed on his videos too. Usually it’s minor QA/QC fit n’ finish stuff. He calls them out on it too. I know he gives the senior marketing guys ulcers at Sig Sauer… but I feel for them, I really do. While I can’t comment with any authority about the nuts n’ bolts of the Sig design, I *think* I can tell you exactly what’s happening behind closed doors in the boardroom of Sig Sauer. I’ve been in the same boat myself far too many times.
Some fuggin whiz kid pulled the P320 concept out of his arse. It made it past the design team (as it should, the concept is sound). It gets thrown in the laps of the production team. It’s inevitable - the devil is in the details and there’s a lot of little unexpected burps and farts as the design and production teams hammer out little problems before releasing the product to market.
But in comes management. And the fricken bean counters. “We’ve got too much time and money into this already!!!! We need this product to start making money NOW!!!” The tone gets menacing: “This product better be on the market, making money in 30 days - or heads roll!” The marketing team is similarly under the gun (if you’ll pardon the pun). “We promised the military and law enforcement guys the product will be on their doorstep in 30 days!!! GET A MOVE ON!!!”
And so they do. And sure as chit … the product hits the market too soon, and the customer gets caught with the glitches and gremlins that don’t work out. My old company did it so often I’d spend a lot of my time “managing customer expectations”. It got me in all kinds of trouble with the manageMINT but it saved them from all kinds of losses stemming from feuds with angry customers.
My buddy at the gun club has one. These things are uglier than sin to look at but that doesn’t mean anything. They feel great when ya wrap your mitts around them. Everything goes to shit for me when you go to put the safety on… because it doesn’t have one! The accuracy seemed good enough but…I’m sorry. I want a safety on my autos. I know it doesn’t need one, but I don’t care. It doesn’t make sense, I know. My revolvers don’t have safeties and I don’t care about that at all. But for whatever reason the lack of one on this one bothered me. I understand the military version has safeties and I think the civilian models should too… but that’s just me. It’s a gun I really want to love…but it just isn’t happening. Your mileage will vary. My experience is very limited so I reserve the right to be full of beans and out to lunch on this. I am also a facetious prick about guns too.
😂
Is the gun experiencing design flaws? Sadly, it’s entirely possible. Sig is producing the new military 6.8x51 gas gun for the military and there are issues cropping up with that too. It sounds like the usual grifters are running the procurement process? There’s rumours and accusations of improprieties and product failure swirling around that too…
The hell of all this is that Sig makes great guns. Their 1911 clones are good enough, and their P226 is the stuff of legends.
My personal opinion is that Sig Sauer doesn’t have a product problem… they have a serious management problem. And…as is the way of these things… everyone else will pay the price for them.
My first question these days. Were the involved parties at Sig vaxxed? (known cognitive effects)
ReplyDeleteAnd here I am, pondering on whether to get a third .38 snubbie or maybe a 4th .357 wheel gun for my next purchase. Fuck them autos. Flash in the pan technology. All you really need is a wheel gun. Hey . . . Wheel Guns are Real Guns!! That's the slogan right there.
ReplyDeleteMore seriously, you'd think after over a full fucking century of auto-loading pistols that they'd have this shit figgered out. I are an engineer and they taught me never to mess with a proven design. Guess the new kids ain't learnt that lesson yet.
G Filthie,
ReplyDeleteI never had much use for them, either. Didn’t like the feel of the one I tried and certainly don’t like the looks. May be a result of needed mass production after getting the DoD contract. Usu, the typical grift plays a role. My thoughts on testing FTF and FTE errors is:
1. Give it to your buddy. If it doesn’t happen to him in 50-100rds it’s user error; if it does then move on to the ammo.
2. New ammo as of late has been hit or miss imo. It was pumped out too quickly and QC was half hearted if done at all. Get 500rds of a specific ammo, doesn’t matter what, give 250 to your buddy and you keep 250. If you have issues and he doesn’t it’s the gun.
3. If you both have issues it’s the ammo. If it’s the gun send it to Sig.
The death of the airman happened in my home town. Information is he was working in weapons storage, checking in/checking out weapons, safety and operation checks etc when the pistol he was handling discharged.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but imagine that the 6.8x51 will be hell on barrels.
ReplyDeleteAir Force Command Pauses Use of M18 Handguns After Security Airman's Death
ReplyDeletehttps://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/07/23/air-force-command-pauses-use-of-m18-handguns-after-security-airmans-death.html?ESRC=eb_250724.nl
Go back to the all steel Colt M-1911A1, says I.
Think you hit right on the head. As far as the he new rifle for the army it’s probably more of a procurement process issue where everyone wants it to do everything and the new round with its extremely high chamber pressures and construction is probably not helping matters. Just go to the 7.62x39 or back to the 7.62x51 and a lot of issues get resolved. Why shoot the enemy multiple times with 5.56 when you can just smack him once.
ReplyDeleteThis Sig debacle is more disappointing than anything else. My own experiences with their products have been quite good. Even the P320 handled very well when I first fired it. Handles even better with the Wilson Combat grip module. Hopefully this gets sorted out.
ReplyDeleteI have quite a few Sigs in the safe. but all of them are made in the early 1990's or before. most are West German made ones. the newest one is a 716 piston rifle. which they stopped making ???
ReplyDeleteI really don't like how the new ones are made. I have 2 Sig 220s
both are West German made as is my 226 and 230 backup gun.
never had any problems with any of them so far.
the one 220 was a cop trade in that I picked up for 350 and I got the pick it out of a dozen he had in the shop. he had a lot of 226s too, I should have grabbed at least one of them while I was there. as for their "new " stuff, don't care all that much for it or them. but the 210, well. I am thinking about one, but I don't need it either really. did shoot one back in the 1970's at the range in West Germany one time and it was a great gun. a little too pricey for me then and now to tell the truth.