I trust the Bible but anything written about it instantly makes me suspicious and wary. I sure as hell wouldn’t trust the opinions of modern academia on any theological issues… or even some churches for that matter.
I would love to know more about the three wise men. Why did they visit Jesus? They don’t appear to be jews or Christian… they show up out of nowhere at a crucial point in Christian history, drop valuable gifts… and then…poof! They’re gone - out of the story. I wonder if a part of the bible hasn’t been lost sometimes, because to me it looks like there is a story behind those guys that never got told…
I think this guy gives a compelling argument on the 3 Wisemen.
ReplyDeletehttps://theimaginativeconservative.org/2017/10/mystery-magi-dwight-longenecker-roger-thomas.html
The easy answer is "God provides". I know that might sound facetious, but it really does answer the question. God knew that a long journey to Egypt was ahead of the child and he needed the funds to get there. Hence the surprise gifts.
ReplyDeleteOther more complicated answers exist. There is a lot to research. But part of this is the faith that the story unfolded exactly as He expected it to. Mary was poor and could have been stoned to death for unfaithfulness. Joseph was poor and was looked down upon by every unbeliever for believing in Mary. God made the way. Why can't he use 3 wise kings to make the way?
Not all the Hebrews returned from Babylon with Nehemiah. The Chaldeans mentioned in Daniel had learned from the Hebrews, and there were probably Hebrews among them still. They would have been well aware of the prophecy, and up to date on the latest scoop about signs and prophecies. There's a good chance that the "kings from the east" were distant cousins of the child in the manger.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible doesn't say it was 3 wise men. Just "wise men" (plural) who brought 3 gifts.
ReplyDeleteBethlehemstar.net has some interesting conjecture about what was happening in the night sky at that time. Very interesting.
Totally agree. If you think about it, the Three Kings (assuming they came from different countries or regions) would've each been travelling with their own little army of soldiers, advisors, and minions to set up tents, prepare food, etc. Furthermore, if they came from the East, they could've come from Persia, the Sub-continent as well the Far East. Lastly, astronomy was already an "established" field of study by 1 AD.
ReplyDeleteThe wise men worshiped The Lord and came from the east, so they were either observant Jews or Gentile converts. The Scripture only states there were more than one, and brought three kinds of gifts. We have been given all we need in The Bible. Beware those who bring novelties, from the romish papists to the polygamists of Utah to the Millerites and the modern scribes et al. Do a study on The Scriptures and how we got them. There is an astounding amount of information in there, if you will but look.
ReplyDeleteProverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Stefan v.
Agreed.
DeleteAny attempts to edit that bible should be held in the deepest suspicion… especially these days…
The church codified the bible in the 600's, before that there were significant more books in it. Some are the Apocrypha and were included at the back of bibles printed even into the 1800's. I have them as pdf's if you want them. Some have been lost to history as well
ReplyDeleteExile1981
Is the Apocrypha the stuff with all the demonology in it, E?
DeleteDo I need to do a deep dive/fact finding trip on it…?
The most interesting is probably the gospel of Judas. There's no way it's real, of course, given the actual events. But it does tell a very human story.
DeleteThe Disciples' Vision
Another day Jesus came up to them. They said to him, "Master, we've seen you in a dream, because we had great [dreams last] night."
But Jesus said, "Why […] hidden yourselves?"
And they [said, "We saw] a great [house, with a great] altar [in it, and] twelve people – we'd say they were priests – and a name. And a crowd of people was waiting at the altar [until] the priests [finished receiving] the offerings. We kept waiting too."
[Jesus said], "What were they like?"
And they said, "[Some] fast [for] two weeks. Others sacrifice their own children; others their wives, praising and humbling themselves among each other. Others sleep with men; others murder; yet others commit many sins and do criminal things. [And] the people standing [before] the altar invoke your [name]! And in all their sacrificing, they fill the [altar] with their offerings." When they said this, [they] fell silent because they were troubled.
I believe the Apocrypha should be read at least once for context. Its the book of solomon that is all the demonology info and its not considered part of the Apocrypha. There is one book of it that some people claim as proof of aliens, which is a visit to heaven.
DeleteExile1981
Clearly, they were disposing of hot merchandise and must have thought that the local constabulary-equivalent wouldn't turn a backwater ranch upside-down looking for it.
ReplyDeleteAlternatively, they were so wise that they got out of the tale while the getting was good, before self-proclaimed academics could plunder their literary colons in the name of ideology some thousands of years later.
They knew The Prophecy was being fulfilled because the gods made signs in the heavens. Followed "The Star" that's why.
ReplyDeleteP.s. it's just a book of stories written by men.
ReplyDeleteIve always understood the three wise men, Magi were Zoroastrians from Persia region, Magi, were magicians, occult knowledge type of mystery experts of sorts. Zoroastrianism was the first monotheistic religion from what I remember.
ReplyDeleteNot qualified to comment. The comments are very interesting though.
ReplyDeleteSome random thoughts I've picked up - one particular pastor preached several sermons that emphasized that God, as the creator of the world, put many signs within the world that point back to him. Even if a person was never exposed to his word, they have only to look at his creation to understand that God does exist. The Magi were able to discern not only the existence of God, but the birth of his Son thru simple observation of the world (and stars).
ReplyDeleteThe Magi first went to Herod and realized his plan to kill the born Christ. It was their warnings to Joseph and Mary that allowed them time to flee to Egypt. I believe Jesus was ~ 3 years old at this point, thus making every single nativity scene incorrect as they were NOT there at the stables in Bethlehem. It was also their gifts that financed the escape to Egypt.
Other than that, not sure what else plays into the Magi story. I also think they were Persian and not Hebrews who stayed in the East, but that's just my opinion with no facts to back it up.
ReplyDeleteA New Chapter Of The Bible Was Found
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/new-chapter-bible-was-found-hidden-inside-1750-year-old-text
Hidden Inside 1,750-Year-Old Text…the only thing we need to know is that Jesus did all the work to save us and that that salvation (saving faith) comes by the hearing of the word of God. We are saved by grace through faith that comes by the hearing of His word.
Romans 10:17
Ephesians 2:8-9
The Missing Books / Parts of the Bible
* Book of Enoch 1, Book of Enoch 2 / The Secrets of Enoch - ***, and Enoch 3 - #
* Book of Esdras 1 and 2
* Book of Maccabees 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5
* Book of Tobit
* Book of Jasher
* Book of Judith
* Book of Esther — Missing sections
* Book of Ecclesiasticus / Sirach
* Book of Jubilees
* Book of Baruch 1, 2, and 3 - *** (Only Baruch 2 and 3 are pseudepigraphic)
* Book of The Shepherd of Hermas
* Book of Wisdom / Wisdom of Solomon
* Book of The Psalms of Solomon - #
* Book of The Odes of Solomon
* Book of Giants - #
* Book of Adam and Eve 1 and 2 / The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan
Gospels
* The Gospel of James / The Protevangelion
* The Gospel of Peter - ***
* The Gospel of Thomas
* The Gospel of Nicodemus / Acts of Pilate - #
* The Syriac Infancy Gospel / Infancy of Jesus Christ - #
Epistles
* The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus, King of Edessa
* The Epistles of Clement
* The Epistle of Barnabas
* The Epistle of Aristeas - ***
* The Epistle of Jeremiah
* The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
* The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca
* The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
* The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
* The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
* The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
* The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
* The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
* The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
* The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
* The Epistle of Herod to Pilate the Governor
* The Epistle of Pilate to Herod
Others — Chapters, pieces, special works
* Assumption of Moses - # / ***
* Apocalypse of Moses - #
* Testament of Abraham - ***
* Apocalypse of Abraham - ***
* Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs - #
* The Acts of Paul - ***
* The Acts of Paul and Thecla - #
* The Apostles Creed
* Psalm 151 — Missing chapter in the Book of Psalms
* Story of Susanna — Missing chapter in the Book of Daniel (Chapter 13)
* Story of Bel and The Dragon — Missing chapter in the Book of Daniel (Chapter 14)
* Story of Ahikar
* The Prayer of Azariah and the Songs of the Three Holy Children — Missing piece in Chapter 3 in the Book of Daniel
* Prayer of Manasseh — Missing piece in Chapter 33 in the Book of Chronicles 2
DG
The Complete Book Of Enoch
ReplyDeletehttps://ia601001.us.archive.org/19/items/TheCompleteBookOfEnochStandardEnglishVersionJayWinter/The%20Complete%20Book%20of%20Enoch,%20Standard%20English%20Version%20-%20Jay%20Winter.pdf
Free Download. Translated from the original Ethiopic manuscript and logically organized.
DG
Read David Morrells book 'The spy that came for Christmas' for an explanation
ReplyDelete