Unfortunately the trail cam that took that pic… is about 100 yards away from a busy county road. I know because I helped him figure it out and install it just before Christmas. Flapz wakes up in the morn to see a Momma swamp donkey and her calf in his back yard most mornings now.
Not saying we’re gonna do it… but IF we were to take a poke at Momma… what calibre would ya do it with? Years ago I got into a fireside ballistics brawl with King Peter. Back then he hunted with cannons like .300 RUM and that powder gobbling whore ate close to 100 grains of powder at a gulp…and it was a rude rifle to shoot! Pete had shot his moose earlier that day. He got it right through the heart and it ran about 75 or 80 yards before it died. Along its final tracks - it looked like someone had slopped 50 gallons of red paint! The bullet went through that big cow shoulder to shoulder. There was no bullet to recover.
He presented it as proof of his thoughts on ballistics where bigger is better and a pass through is to be desired because of increased trauma and easier blood trails to follow. He was about 75 yards away when he shot it.
My theory is that modern guns kill best through hydrostatic shock rather than by trauma. I personally believe that faster is better. A lighter bullet (according to my theory) may not pass all the way through…but it WILL induce massive hydrostatic shock as it dumps its entire load of kinetic energy into the target. Most of the deer i killed with my beloved old 25-06 folded up and dropped on the spot! As if God just reached down and turned them off Himself. But… that’s deer, this is moose. Whadda I know?
The only exception I ever had was a small deer that I took 25 years ago. He flushed out 75 yards away running full tilt which gave me an excellent shot at him broadside. I touched off the shot, the deer tumbled arse over tea kettle … and got up and took off again for a clump of trees 300 yards away. Baloney Bob was incandescent with rage and gave me shit for taking an unsportsmanlike shot. I lit a cigar, pulled out my flask and told him to get stuffed! The shot was good, and I demanded that we all sit down and give the critter a chance to bleed out and die.
When we recovered that deer, the shot was right on the money…but the deer was a little smaller than a chihuahua and I almost got 30 days for shooting at household pets out of season from the fish cops! It wasn’t a fawn with spots…but I swear that was the smallest doe i ever shot. I still get ragged about it.
The only reason I bring it up is that my pet load a moly coated 85 grain Nosler ballistic tip, moving at 3400 FPS … dumped deer like nobody’s business. I’ve taken respectable bucks with that load easily…but the runt shrugged it off and made a cracking good run for the trees hundreds of yards away…
?
Whatever. Maybe I’m full a beans?
Compounding the problem here is that the big rifles are not allowed this close to town. It’s muzzle loaders, shotguns or bow only. Hate to say it… but these critters will be safe and sound for now…
☹️
Sharp's BP took plenty of buffalo (bison) in it's day. Should handle a moose just fine.
ReplyDeleteWith those choices, you'll be close. I would feel confident with a 12 ga. slug. Slightly less confident with a standard Italian replica, 50 cal, muzzle stuffer, with conical bullet instead of lead ball.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading comments (many of which would work very well) and rereading the posting, I'm pretty sure mine is the only legal way. Glen is a bit of a stickler for the law.
DeleteMartin Fackler, former head of the US army wound ballistics lab, said hydrostatic shock was mostly b.s. with little to no evidence for it. The .223/5.56 fmj round works by yawing and fragmenting and velocity helps. Expanding ammo does similar damage more reliably.
ReplyDeleteA theory l heard says that if a bullet hits the heart as it is on the beat pressurizing the circulatory system it can cause overpressure that blows out blood vessels in the brain, causing the deer to drop in its tracks. Seems plausible.
He could well be right. The problem I have with gubbimint and scientific studies is that they draw a LOT of their conclusions with methodologies involving ballistic gel. In the field you have muscle, bone, shot angles and gawd only knows what else. I am dubious as to how much of the data drawn from the lab will be applicable in the field…
DeleteFackler was a medical doctor who treated wounded soldiers in Vietnam before becoming head of the ballistics lab. He was the real deal with actual experience of how bullets wound and kill people.
Delete30.'06
ReplyDeleteI had some outlaw cousins that killed deer frequently with 22 Hornet. Heard a story about game warden after them for a long time. They caught an Angora goat and tied a big 6v flashlight around it's neck. Game warden chase all night. Can't confirm but it makes for a good story.
ReplyDeleteAshby Broadhead hunting:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ashbybowhunting.org/ashby-reports
The animal doesn't even know it has just been killed...
22LR behind the ear from a rifle at halitosis range would do if you get close. Parks staff head shoot Rusa deer here with suppressed 22 magnums from cars under spotlight (STRICTLY pest control & houses all around so can't use centrefires). Moose are big animals but NOT armour plated, so either a 270 or 308 at short ranges in the right spot should do the job very, very nicely. The Swedes use the ballistic equivalent of a 260 rem for moose (with long, heavy for calibre projectiles) so there is always the option of a 6.5x55. I reckon your 25-06 would have been fine. Just get unsportingly close & head shoot them. I know someone who shoots Sambar with a rifle chambered in 243 win with a 24" barrel. He is using 85gn Noslers - the projectiles are the key.
ReplyDelete"Hydrostatic shock" sounds all scientific but I lean toward the BS opinion. The blood vessels are too stretchy and elastic for the theory to work for a chest-shot.
ReplyDeleteFast moving bullets leave an icecream-cone shaped zone of damaged flesh with the bottom of the cone at the far-end of the trail and the scoops-of-ice cream near the entrance. Fast moving bullets make wider scoops-of-ice cream.
That suggests that damage to the brachial plexus (https://cmapscloud.ihmc.us/rid=1W6TNHHJ9-22J7MS-W6/Brachial%20Plexus%20chart%20horse.jpg) is a likely cause of Dead Right There behavior.
This opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Well that’s both of us Joe. There’s exceptions to every rule… but they ARE the exceptions.
DeletePeople told me all the time I was shooting a varmint bullet and one day I’d wake up and smell the coffee when the animal i wounded bounded away, only to slowly die an agonizing death from a nasty surface wound. It never happened once to me. All the bullets penetrated, none exited, and they went off like grenades in the animal’s boiler room. But then again, all my shots were close and right on the money.
.300 Win mag, .308, or 30-06, seem to be the calibers of choice here in the Frozen Freakin’ North. 30-30 would prob’ly do if you’re danger close and blow the heart out of her. AK state cops use a 12 ga slug behind the ear on the few that don’t walk away from a truck impact, but again, they’re right up against it.
ReplyDeleteLeave it to me to be sexist, but I often wonder if there is not a gender issue involved in caliber effectiveness. My experience has been on southern, white tail deer, using .270 winchester and 308 winchester. I have never had a doe that was not a bang-flop/DRT. I have had several bucks that sponged up one or more 308 soft points in the chest and kept moving 50 yards or more.
ReplyDeleteI prefer 45/70 or slug for large animals
ReplyDeleteExile1981
.303 of course. The Cartridge of Empire.
ReplyDeleteW I N N I N G !!!
DeleteNot so much these days though